‘SCIENTISTS’ BALDERDASH BEATS GURUS: An international team of researchers have conducted a survey to see whether people have higher regard for statements made by scientists compared with spiritual leaders, even if the people don’t understand what has been stated. To do this they presented people with apparently erudite statements that were really nonsense generated by a computer algorithm that puts together modern-day buzzwords and technical terms into grammatically correct but meaningless sentences. The statements were neither overtly scientific or religious. The team surveyed 10,195 participants from 24 countries, asking them to rate how credible they found the statements. The sources of the statements were ascribed to either a person with a fictitious name and described as “a spiritual authority in world religions” or to someone else with a different fictitious name yet described as “a scientific authority in the field of particle physics”. Overall, the survey revealed people gave higher credibility rating to the “scientific authority” source than the “spiritual leader”, even by people who identified as being “religious”. The research team called this phenomenon the “Einstein effect” and summarised their results: “across all 24 countries and all levels of religiosity, scientists held greater authority than spiritual gurus”. They then concluded: “These findings suggest that irrespective of one’s religious worldview, across cultures science is a powerful and universal heuristic that signals the reliability of information”.
References: Science Alert 13 February 2022; Nature Human Behaviour published online 7 February 2022, doi: 10.1038/s41562-021-01273-8.
ED. COM. This last statement may also sound like it came out of the balderdash producing algorithm, but it does make sense if you understand the term “heuristic” which means enabling someone to discover or learn something for themselves. Therefore, these researchers were claiming that people see science, and therefore the teachings of scientists, as the way to find the truth. It is interesting that even people who considered themselves religious put scientists above spiritual leaders. This has provably happened in the Christian church over the past century and a half, as the evolutionary words of Darwin, Lyell, Dawkins and Attenborough and their followers have been elevated above the Word of God on Six Day Creation, Noah’s Flood and other Biblical issues.
It pays to remember that when something is not true, it won’t ever be made true by being said by scientists, no matter how many university degrees they may have. To find the truth you need to go to the One who is the truth – The Lord Jesus Christ. He spoke the truth and backed up His words with actions that only the Creator could do.
Finally, don’t let anyone bluff you with ‘heuristic’ balderdash or big words. If something looks or sounds like balderdash it probably is, and being said by a scientific or religious authority will not change that. God’s Word uses plain language, meant for all to understand. If someone claiming to have scientific or religious authority tries to make it more complicated than it is, or change the plain meaning to suit current popular theories, don’t let them confuse you. If someone tries to bluff you with big words don’t be intimidated. Politely ask them to explain. If they can’t give you an answer in plain language, they probably don’t know what they are talking about.
We were recently called upon to deal with this issue when we were asked about a book by Ken Coulson, a Science PhD who proposed a new theory that to many appears to reconcile Darwin’s and Lyell’s theories with Genesis. The same author also made claims about dogs and evolution. For our response to both his claims see the questions:
What do you think of the book ‘Creation Unfolding’ by Ken Coulson? Is it evolutionist? Answer here.
Dogs have undergone many changes since people have been breeding them. Surely this is evolution? Answer here. Also see the item on dog genes in this newsletter below.
Further questions related to the issue of scientific authority:
A School Chaplain claims students lose faith unless we teach God used evolution. How do you reply? Answer here.
Can you show me one error made by Richard Dawkins? Answer here.‘https://mailchi.mp/creationresearch.net/creation-research-email-update-23rd-february-2022?e=ce21bf0337
Theistic Evolution
All posts tagged Theistic Evolution
John 1:10
“He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.”
‘Scientists have, for the first time, successfully communicated with honeybees in their own language! Scientists have for some time known how to interpret many of the elements of the bees’ so-called “waggle dance.” This dance is used by scouts to communicate the location of food sources to the food gatherers in the hive.
A couple years ago researchers decided to see if they could confirm their understanding of bee communication. But how do you talk to a bee and get confirmation that she understood what you said? Scientists decided that the only way to do this was to build a robot bee through which they could communicate. The first attempts at building a robot bee acceptable to real bees did not work well. Early models were viciously attacked.
Scientists finally perfected a computer-controlled robot bee that real honeybees accepted. These scientists describe honeybee language as elegant and precise. Yet they found they had learned enough bee language to communicate successfully a food source and its location to real bees. They also discovered that they have much more to learn about bee language. As a result, it may someday be possible for farmers to direct bees to crops that need pollination.
Just as bees can best understand other bees, we humans can best understand other humans. That explains why, when God our Creator wished to communicate with us, He became a human being. That human, Jesus Christ, taught us about God; and He also made peace with God for us, making possible the forgiveness of our sins.’https://creationmoments.com/sermons/robot-bee-communicator-2/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=robot-bee-communicator-2&mc_cid=c83190c013&mc_eid=00c1dcff3c
Genesis 1:24
“And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.”
‘Staying with some family members in Kentucky, I was delighted one dark evening to see little flashes of light in the air, low over the garden lawn. Although I was too far away to see the insects concerned, these must have been fireflies. Fireflies are not actually flies – they are beetles. Their light-producing organs are in their abdomens. Most species use these bioluminescent displays for courtship.
The bioluminescence is caused by a type of luciferin molecule, commonly called firefly luciferin. The name has nothing to do with evil! It comes from the Latin word for light. Firefly luciferin reacts with oxygen, and the reaction is catalyzed by an enzyme, luciferase, as well as the presence of magnesium ions and adenosine triphosphate – the energy-giving molecule ATP. Luciferin first forms another highly tensed molecule called a dioxetane, which releases CO2 to form a ketone. The ketone is in a highly excited electronic state, so it “relaxes” back to normal state by releasing energy. This energy is at exactly the right frequency to be in the visible light range. The fireflies in Kentucky emitted yellow light.
If one were an evolutionist, one would have to wonder – what would have been the evolutionary advantage for the beetle to produce luciferase if there was no luciferin, or vice versa? We have a lot more work to do to investigate the chemistry of the process, but we still marvel at the wonder of God’s design for these insects.’https://creationmoments.com/sermons/fireflies/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fireflies&mc_cid=5dc2fcd79c&mc_eid=00c1dcff3c
‘DARWIN’S ABOMINABLE MYSTERY SOLVED YET AGAIN as scientists have found a fossil plant with leaves, a fruit and a flower bud in rocks from Inner Mongolia. These are distinctive features of angiosperms, the scientific term for flowering plants. The fossil plant has been named Florigerminis jurassica and is the oldest dated flowering plant found so far. The fossil is dated as 164 million years old, placing it in the Jurassic period of the evolutionary timetable. Until recently angiosperm plants were believed to have evolved in the Cretaceous, (65 – 145 million years ago) but scientists have speculated they must have evolved far earlier so they had time to evolve the great diversity of flowering plants that exists now and in the fossil record. This problem was noted by Darwin, who called the origin of flowering plants an “abominable mystery”. The research team who studied Florigerminis jurassica commented that their specimen along with two other recently discovered Jurassic fossil flowers “demands a rethinking of angiosperm evolution”.
Sources: Science Alert 16 January 2022, Geological Society, London, Special Publications, 6 January 2022, doi: 10.1144/SP521-2021-122
ED. COM. Every time someone finds a fossil flowering plant in Jurassic or early Cretaceous rocks they claim to have solved Darwin’s abominable mystery. However, finding a fully formed flowering plant never solves the mystery of how non-flowering plants turned into flowering plants because, like this new fossil, it is already a flowering plant. In fact, this “mystery” will never be solved because it exists only in the minds of Darwin and his followers. Flowering plants have always been flowering plants – the evidence supports that just as Genesis explains it – because God created all green plants according to their kinds, which included the plants we now classify as angiosperms. See Genesis 1:11-12. It’s seen in both the fossil record, and in our observations of living plants, which always reproduce after their kind.’https://mailchi.mp/creationresearch.net/creation-research-email-update-9th-february-2022?e=ce21bf0337
Theistic evolutionist ‘Dr. Francis Collins, former director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and founder of the evolutionary creation advocacy group BioLogos, has become a lightning rod within evangelicalism for promoting vaccines for COVID-19, especially among pastors and other faith leaders.
In a BioLogos-sponsored webinar last week, Collins chided many of his fellow white evangelicals for not getting the vaccine and alleged “the culture war is literally killing people.”
Collins cited Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that vaccine hesitancy or resistance contributed to more than 100,000 deaths from COVID-19, the Religion News Service reported. He suggested vaccine resistance was partly the result of Christians falling for misinformation.
Yet in a recent Daily Wire article that’s been widely circulated, conservative writer Megan Basham questioned why evangelicals haven’t interrogated Collins more rigorously before sharing their platform with the federal official she called “Caesar’s agent.”
Citing news reports, Basham accused Collins of trying to suppress questions surrounding the source of COVID-19 and the efficacy of the federal COVID-19 response. She also accused Collins himself of being “willing to compromise transparency and truth for PR considerations.”
Basham also questioned whether it was appropriate for Collins to recruit evangelical leaders like Wheaton College dean Ed Stetzer to help him spread the government’s preferred narratives about COVID-19.
On a podcast with Stetzer in September, Collins said, “I want pastors once again to try to use your credibility with your flock to put forward the public health measures that we know can work.”
But Basham asked, “(I)s it truly the pastor’s job to tell church members to ‘trust the science?’”
Spokespeople for the NIH and BioLogos didn’t immediately reply when The Roys Report reached out asking for a response to the Daily Wire piece. TheDaily Wire didn’t receive a response when it reached out to Stetzer, public theologian Russell Moore, and other high-profile evangelicals mentioned in the piece.
‘Misinformation . . . and conspiracies’
Collins regularly cites his faith in BioLogos podcasts and elsewhere, sometimes comparing his path to Christ to that of C.S. Lewis. Collins, who headed the Human Genome Project, is author of the best-selling book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, which won a Christianity Today Book Award.
Because of his substantial scientific credentials and professed Christian belief, The Washington Post described Collins as being in an “unusual position to address people of faith.”
In last week’s BioLogos webinar, Collins said he was surprised by how much his shared faith mattered to Christians. Researchers, he said, have found that “unless that truth comes at you from somebody you trust, you’re not going to call it truth at all.”
Collins also highlighted how white evangelicals were somewhat less likely than average to have gotten vaccinated for COVID-19.
About two-thirds of white evangelical Protestants had gotten at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine when Pew Research polled Americans in late August. At the time, 70% of black Protestants had done so, and almost three-quarters of Americans in general.
Collins told RNS he blamed “misinformation and lies and conspiracies” for part of white evangelicals’ hesitancy about COVID-19 vaccination. He also thought his messaging about the pandemic could have been better.
Credibility as an evangelical
However, Basham called Collins’ credibility with evangelicals into question.
Under Collins’ watch, she wrote, the NIH has funded research using abortion-derived fetal tissue and factored in diversity criteria when awarding grants. NIH funding has also gone to research on “sexual and gender minorities,” she wrote.
BioLogos, which Collins founded, also advocates for “an evolutionary understanding of God’s creation.”
According to Pew Research, only about a third of evangelicals think humans evolved and a majority oppose abortion and same-sex marriage.
Basham suggested Collins gained his credibility from “character witnesses” like Stetzer and former Southern Baptist leader Russell Moore, who praised Collins’ “Christian humility.”
After the article’s publication, Basham noted on Twitter that BioLogos suddenly canceled an interview she had scheduled with Collins on a different topic. When she asked why, an organization spokesperson replied that “the tone and claims” of her article were “inconsistence” with BioLogos’ aims.
Responses Mixed
Responses to the controversy have been mixed.
Jay Richards, a research fellow with the Heritage Foundation, urged pastors and religious leaders to apologize for “this naïve propagandizing for Collins.”
Kelley Owens, a kids director at a church in Indianapolis, tweeted: “If nothing else, this pandemic has served to increase my discernment and give me pause before I uncritically accept any position . . . Even if it comes from someone I have previously trusted.”
However, a medical doctor noted on social media that Collins was “far from the only medical doctor urging, masking, vaccination, and reasonable public health interventions. In fact there have been doctors and nurses in churches all across the country giving the same message to evangelicals.”
One reader likened the pushback against Collins to how Christians interacted with former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop.
Erick Erickson, a conservative Christian pundit, initially said he was “disturbed” by Basham’s article. But later, he published a blog post calling for an end to what he characterized as “infighting” among Christians trying to bolster their own credibility.
“(M)aybe those in positions of leadership need to realize there are others they’re inspiring to tribalism, not to the trials of the Christian life,” he wrote. “Maybe instead of picking sides, pick Jesus.”’https://julieroys.com/francis-collins-draws-fire-vaccine-advocacy-top-evangelicals/?mc_cid=27c313549b&mc_eid=b13d34ad49
If you have read this far Collins is wrong in both his belief on how God created and on the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines. Genesis 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day and THERE IS NO WAY OF GETTING THEISTIC EVOLUTION out of that!
Psalm 31:15-16
“My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me. Make thy face to shine upon thy servant: save me for thy mercies’ sake.”
‘Ray Bradbury’s classic 1952 short story “A Sound of Thunder” featured a company called Time Safaris Inc. They took clients back in time to the date evolutionists believe dinosaurs roamed the Earth. They find a dinosaur which is about to die, then allow the clients to shoot it. During one safari, a character slips off the force-field pathway and, unknowingly, treads on a butterfly, killing it. On return to the present, they discover that the present is different from the present they left. Evolution has proceeded by a very different route because of the death of that butterfly.
As a teenager, brought up to believe evolution, the story seemed plausible to me. Evolution would surely multiply such errors. But researchers at Los Alamos National Laboratory have suggested that quantum physics gives a different answer – that the proceeding evolution would correct itself and little overall change would occur. Bradbury’s story led to the coining of the term “the butterfly effect”. The Los Alamos researchers suggest there is no butterfly effect. Who has it right?
The answer is, of course, neither. For so many other reasons, we know that Darwinian evolution, requiring increased new information, is impossible. So Bradbury’s short story was based on a false premise. But so was the Los Alamos research. Their computer model, however sophisticated, is a designed environment and can therefore never simulate random processes. Meanwhile, the revelation of God’s word in Scripture stands as the only true key to the past.’https://creationmoments.com/sermons/butterflies-and-time-machines/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=butterflies-and-time-machines&mc_cid=87247e4849&mc_eid=00c1dcff3c
Acts 17:26
“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;”
‘It has always been my contention, in the sermons and presentations which I give, that talk about human evolution can be dangerous. Why so?
The first problem in the discussion is the equivocal way in which evolutionists use the term evolution. In a linguistic sense, it can simply mean change. So, it could be noted that characteristics of one population of humans has changed over time. This could be described linguistically as evolution. But it is not biological evolution. To a biologist, Darwinian evolution must involve mutations which produce new and better genetic information, which, over time and natural selection, will improve the population. Such novel genetic information is not, in practice, actually seen, but this does not seem to stop biologists referring to the evolution of human beings in an unfortunate manner.
Evolutionary articles are wont to describe changes in skin pigmentation as evolution. Describing such changes as “evolution” can be risky because it can easily lead to discussion of which skin pigmentation is “better” and more highly evolved. One can see how such discussion can lead to racist conclusions.
Such problems do not exist in a biblical context, where we see, as a foundation to anthropology, that all human beings are descended from one man, Adam, and are therefore of one race. So the different levels of pigmentation that God has given to us can be seen as glorious and reasons to praise Him for His goodness.’https://creationmoments.com/sermons/talk-about-human-evolution/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=talk-about-human-evolution&mc_cid=fd14ae15b5&mc_eid=00c1dcff3c
‘Perhaps you remember the story of Chicken Little, the hen who got excited when an acorn fell on her head. She began running around hollering, “The sky is FALLING! The sky is FALLING!” On the way to tell the King about this catastrophe, she met her friends – a rooster, a duck, a goose and a turkey – who then became seized by fear, achieving a kind of mass animal hysteria. By the time they all met the fox, their judgment was essentially consumed by the mania, and they fell for the fox’s deception about a shortcut to see the King. So they followed the fox right into his den where they became dinner for the Fox family.
When people are fearful, they are more easily deceived, controlled and oppressed! This is why the Bible says in many places to “Fear not.” Because we can put our trust in our great and loving Creator, the Bible says to “abide under the shadow of the Almighty”, to “say of the Lord ‘He is my refuge and my fortress’ and “Surely He shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler” (Psalm 91:1-3). When preoccupied by fear, we can’t discern truth and think as clearly – hence, the critical importance of abiding in God and Christ!
Faith in the law-giving, principle-giving Creator God of the Bible is the foundation for true “science” (the Latin word for “knowledge”). This is why the scientific revolution, the foundation of modern science, came from countries that had a biblical worldview – and on the heels of the protestant reformation and the printing and publishing of the Bible in the common languages. The development of true science required faith in the law-giving Creator of the Bible, who thus must also have created principles which the Bible said were there for mankind to discover. Cultures which believed the Bible thus sought and discovered the scientific laws. And the scientific laws are, in turn, proof of the law-giving Creator of which the Bible speaks!
When science is divorced from its Creator, as it is with evolution, it is open to all kinds of error and pseudo-science. One such error has been the so-called “scientific justification” for racism and for eugenics. Prolific writer, philosopher and lay theologian G.K. Chesterton wrote about the degrading effects of this kind of science: “The thing that really is trying to tyrannize is Science…That creed is the great but disputed system of thought which began with Evolution and has ended with Eugenics”.
Chesterton predicted tyranny from this kind of “science”, forecasting what later unfolded with the Nazis in Germany. Eugenics, including the ranking of people based on skull shapes and sizes, is now almost universally recognized as a pseudo-science … though Communist China revived it for its one-child abortion policies and racial-cleansing efforts.
Divorcing science from the God of the Bible through evolution promotes tyranny. It encourages the deconstruction of divine principles such as the sanctity of life, private property, and liberty. This is because social principles can be deconstructed or debunked if they do not carry the authority of our Maker. Chesterton points out, for example, that a godless science can argue, “After all, what is human life? Brief at best, sad at the brightest, it is itself but a disease from which, etc, etc.” So why not kill?
Or it can say, “After all, what is property? Why should material objects be artificially attached, etc, etc.” So why not steal? Or “After all, what is liberty? Man must live as a member of a society, and so must obey those laws which etc, etc.” So why not totally regulate and tyrannize individuals?
Today, science is so divorced from God through evolution that we are allowing biological men to compete against biological women in sports! And deconstruction of the great divine truth that God created them “male and female” (Genesis 1:27) is so entrenched through the deception and intimidation of pseudo-science that otherwise perfectly smart people capitulate to and join with this grand deception, daring not even to debate it!
Fear, indeed, accompanies godless evolution. For if we accept evolutionism, we accept that God is unnecessary or impotent or completely absent from the created order. And God the Creator gets replaced by Chance and Survival of the Fittest. We all become vulnerable to the whims of Chance – the impersonal, uncaring, fickle, capricious, merciless “god” who keeps us in fear.
Like island dwellers sacrificing their children to the volcano god to keep it from erupting by appeasing it, we might sacrifice our freedoms in fear to a culture of deception and death, including lives of the unborn to appease the enforcers of conclusions from godless science. We must be careful that we are not led into a trap as were Chicken Little and her friends!
As always, the answer to the dilemma of mankind is found in believing the Bible for all that it has to say, including, “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains fall into the midst of the sea” (Psalm 46:1-2).
In many ways, our culture is based on modernized witchcraft. We are really no better than the ancients. Control, domination and manipulation – the ancient practice of shamans and witches over people to help them “avoid disaster” – is, in many ways, the practice of today’s rulers.
“Trust the science,” they tell us, except that such science is based in godlessness, with plenty of dishonesty, corruption, deception and deconstruction of divine truth along the way. “To avoid disaster, switch to electric cars, keep wearing your masks, and vaccinate your kids!” they say. “And teach them Critical Race Theory (CRT)”, thus reviving evolution-based racism, mixed with evolution-supported Marxism. “Oh and by the way, if you resist what we tell you to do, WE’RE COMING FOR YOU!” Godless science will try to work in the fear-factor in many ways.’https://creationmoments.com/newsletter/evolution-and-the-sum-of-all-fears/?mc_cid=dd42f56b70&mc_eid=00c1dcff3c
‘The existence of humans suggests that, at some point, there must have been a first human. Neither evolutionists nor creationists deny this. However, creationists believe that Adam (Genesis 1–2) was the first human. But whether the first human was Adam or some unnamed, recently-evolved person, where did that person learn to speak?
Evidence suggests that humans do not learn to speak unless they are taught by someone who already knows how to speak. Additionally, the archaeological record indicates that fully-developed languages have been in existence as long as humans have been (Elgin 1973, 44). For these reasons, Curtis, in a 1990 article, argues that a personal creator was responsible for the existence of the first human.
Linguistic Evidence
Linguistic research suggests that languages have not evolved from a prehistoric development period (Eglin 1973, 44). Rather, languages have always existed with the same communication potential as they currently possess. In fact, it is possible that they even held greater communication potential in the past.
Archaeological Evidence
The archaeological finds from the past 100 years of excavations have demonstrated that written language appears well developed in the earliest records of civilization. For example, the Ebla tablets date to about 2000 BC. These tablets contain writing in a fully-developed, phonetic language.
How Do People Learn How to Speak?
Some Darwinian anthropologists have suggested that if, in the process of evolution, there was a transition from animal to man, this transition would have included the acquisition of language. However, one of these anthropologists, Humbolt, realized that man cannot speak without already being human. For him, this created an unsolvable problem regarding the origin of speech (Lyell 1873).
Another problem with determining the origin of speech from an evolutionary perspective is that in so-called primitive cultures, the languages tend to be more complex than in more advanced cultures. Furthermore, animals with the physical capability to use logical speech do not do so. Studies have shown that animals that respond to commands do so based on vocal tones rather than the spoken words. Thus, all attempts to solve the evolutionary origin of language have failed.
Every child that learns how to speak learns from someone who already knows how to speak. There do not seem to be any exceptions to this rule. Feral children who grow up without contact with spoken language did not learn to speak until they came into contact with speaking individuals. Once they had heard speech, they were able to learn how to speak (Tomb 1925).
What Does this All Mean?
Since multiple languages appear to have existed in fully developed forms in the earliest known civilizations, it appears that the languages do not have one common root. Rather, each language appeared independently of the others.
This evidence aligns well with the biblical account. From the creation of Adam until the Tower of Babel, there was only one language on earth (Genesis 11:1). Curtis suggests that God taught the first man, Adam, to speak. It is clear that Adam spoke a well-developed language because he was able to name the animals (Genesis 2:19). From that point on, each generation learned to speak from the previous one.
Later, when God confused the languages at the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:7), He miraculously created a number of additional unrelated, fully-formed languages. The pattern of language learning continued. Each person learned to speak from the previous generation.
Conclusion
The scientific evidence obtained through linguistic and archaeological studies suggest that the first human who learned how to speak must have learned from someone who already possessed the capability of speech. This first person must have learned from someone of a higher order than humans. This correlates well with the biblical account of God’s creation of Adam. Adam must have received the ability and knowledge to speak from God himself. The study of language demonstrates that there must be a creator God. No human can speak a language unless that person has been taught. Furthermore, languages have not arisen from some lesser forms of communication. They appeared early in history, fully developed. The languages present today do not share a common root, suggesting that they appeared as separate, well-developed languages. This accords well with the account of the Tower of Babel.
References
Curtis, William M. 1990. “Human Language Demands a Creator.” The Proceedings of the International Conference on Creationism 2:1, 69–72.
Elgin, Suzette H. 1973. What is Linguistics? Englewood Cliffs: Prentice-Hall Inc.
Lyell, C. 1873. Antiquity of Man, 4th Ed., 518.
Tomb, J. W. 1925. “On the Intuitive Capacity of Children to Understand Spoken Language.” British Journal of Psychiatry 1, 553–555.’https://newcreation.blog/how-did-humans-learn-to-speak/?mc_cid=c226022714&mc_eid=2abe4a38b0
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